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Play65/GammonEmpire vs. TrueMoneyGames

From:   oneprime
Date:   15 February 2005
Subject:   gammonempire versus tmg

Please tell me, why should I play at GE instead of TMG?

Matt  writes:

My opinion is obviously biased, being a GE representative, but I
believe GE is better because:

1. Rating system and fair play - In GE, you know who you're playing
against. Our rating system is designed to prevent frauds and sharks
ripping off players. Not just rating, but a complicated rake structure
which favors similar rankings and fines huge differences in ranking.

2. Refer A friend & Signup bonuses: GammonEmpire gives you the
opportunity to enjoy signup bonuses AND a generous $20 bonus for EACH
depostior that you refer.

3. Technical: Graphics, Interface, Automatic update, Resume Game

And many other features including >10 software languages, free money
promotions and more..

I can dig some more and find numerous other reasons.

[3dfibster writes:]

Good job GammonEmpire.!!

If you can get a diehard fibster like me to deposit and play for hours
and enjoy it, you are doing something right.

I really enjoyed the "sit and go" tournaments. I think this will be very

How about lobby chat feature?  Would be nice to be able to talk to
somone without disturbing a match.

Also a user feedback form somewhere on the support page would be nice
without having to compose and send email.

In any case, good job. For a brand new service, I have to say it is
quite remarkably stable and good looking.


Carla  writes:

Not being in limited in match length depending on the match stake is a
BIG plus for me on GE against TMG. For example, on GE, I can play a 7
pts match for $3 or $5. Can't do that on TMG.

I like the sit and go tourneys too, but the drawback is that one has to
wait long time to get enough players. My playing time being limited I
don't play as much of those as I would like to.

I like TMG board layout much better than GE one. Also the play is much
faster at TMG. May be a server performance pb?

Also, one has to be very careful on GE when accepting an invite because
players can change the table initial settings (match length, cube, etc).

Finally, at TMG, the freeroll tourneys time has been changed to be
mostly during the day for europeans players, so I can't play freerolls
on a daily basis anymore. I have told TMG staff that, but didn't change
anything. May be they are trying to attract american players and don't
care much about european ones ...


da playa  writes:

I've had a good look at both tmg and gammonempire. Here's what I

a) graphics and playing experience

tmg: slick playing interface, very customizable, e.g.tons of different
boards to choose from,great look and feel overall, and I just love
that handy right-click option for making points or going all the way
with one checker :-).
They might want to revamp the colors of their lobby though. Make it
look a bit more cheerful, u know ;-)

gammonempire: none of the above, just one board which doesnt look
state-of-the-art,you can't customize anything, can't even change its
size. I guess it's ok, but we've seen a lot of nicer looking and more
functional stuff out there, sorry Matt. I do like one feature I
haven't seen anywhere else: Players can freely determine what stakes
they want to play, e.g. you could play for $9.99 a point ;-)

b) rake comparison

Both sites use different systems to compute their rakes. Gammonempire
uses a system which looks fairly complicated aka confusing (now, Matt
likes to tell us it's only for our benefit lol).
Let's do our little math piece then (obviously,there's some copy and
paste involved,I hope Matt doesn't mind):

  1) Single Game (Money)
At both sites, commission is taken from the final win sum (the winner
pays for both players)
gammonempire:Up to $20: 4% if both players' ratings are about equal,
8% if both players'ratings are more than 200 apart
Example: Joe and Alex play a single game with initial stake of $5.
Alex won 2 points. $9.20/$8,40 will be added to Alex's balance and
Joe's balance will be deducted by $10. (commission is $0.4/$0.8)
tmg:2.5% for all stakes
Example: Joe and Alex play a single game with initial stake of $5.
Alex won 2 points. $9.50 will be added to Alex's balance and Joe's
balance will be deducted by $10.(commission is $0.25)
Hmmm,let me think,guess I wanna go for $9.50 rather than $9.20 or
$8.40  ;-)

  2) Series Game (Match)
This is where their different rake structures come in, so I will try
to make this as short as possible:
gammonempire:Say,Diane and Julia play a Series (match) up to 3 points
with stake of $10. If Diane wins,$9.30 will be added to Diane's
balance and Julia's balance will be deducted by $10. Now wait, but
only if their rating is about equal. When their rating is 200 apart,
$8.60 will be added to Diane's balance and Julia's balance will be
deducted by $10. Yo Matt, did I get that right?
tmg:Say,Diane and Julia play a Series (match) up to 3 points with
stake of $10.Each has to pay a $0.80 rake,so their total stake is
actually $10.80 each. If Diane wins,$9.20 will be added to Diane's
balance and Julia's balance will be deducted by $10.80.
So, as long as both players have equal ratings, gammonempire is
definitely cheaper than tmg on this one.
Bottom line: You can't say one is more expensive than the other, it
all depends. But I sure like those $9.50 better than $8.40  ;-)).

c) responding to emails

tmg: I have heard of complaints about unanswered emails

gammonempire: I have never heard of complaints about unanswered emails

d) security:

tmg: On their website, they have a couple of
pages dealing with security issues, and a page with a detailed
description of how their random dice are generated (for the latter,
click on security in the backgammon section). What they say there
sounds competent and trustwothy enough, so no reason for me to suspect
any irregularities. Playing on tmg should be as safe as it gets, no
possible cheating there.

gammonempire: Much as I looked around on their website, I couldn't find anything detailing security, let
alone any mention of how their dice are generated. Maybe they will
tell you if you write them an email. In the meantime,let's just hope
they are as secure as tmg. ;-)

e) rating:

Gammonempire uses it, TMG doesn't. Actually, I have never before heard
of people being rated when they play for money. They don't have it in
online poker. And no one would ever want it there. Gammonempire
emphasizes they want to discourage players of different rating levels
from playing each other. Why? To protect them from each other, ah
yes,of course lol. When I enter their site I can read: "Play
backgammon--make money". Well, here's some bad news: If you only
played equally skilled players, which they strongly encourage, you
wouldn't make any money in the long run. So they better take that
"make money" sign off their site ;-).

Speaking for myself, when playing for money, I prefer not being tagged
with funny colors, be it green or red. When playing for rating, rating
is fine ;-).

f) What I would really like to see implemented is being able to play
for different currencies, especially Euros, and not only for Dollars.
Unfortunately, neither tmg nor gammonempire offer that.

Guess that's all for now, gonna do some of those cool right-clicks
over at... ah, I won't tell, check it out for yourselves  ;-)

          da playa

Hank Youngerman  writes:

I quit TMG when the rakes tripled.  10% from each player is just
ridiculous for match play.

GE is doing a lot of things right.  Their board is clearly inferior to
TMG.  I'm not sure I totally understand the point of the variable
rakes, but I respect that they are willing to experiment.  The
variable rakes would make much more sense if they lowered the rakes
for the weaker players.  If I am going to have to pay a huge rake when
I play a weak player, at least give him a benefit.  Who would I rather
play all day, peer players with a 3% rake (so I will lose 3% in the
long run) or fish with a 20% rake?  If I can win enough of my matches
I can still make money at a 20% rake!

I do find it disturbing that they do not publish how their rating
system actually works, or players' experience.  I do care a lot
whether someone's experience is 100 or 1000.

Also, 1 min per move on a Bronstein clock is way too long.  20 sec is

What does impress me about GE is that they are responsive, and willing
to experiment.
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