Forum Archive : Rules

Rolling too soon

From:   James Grenier
Date:   2 September 1996
Subject:   Your opponent rolls before you pick up the dice

Your opponent rolls before you pick up the dice but you've moved your
checkers, so what happens next?

a) You complete your move by picking up the dice and your opponent's
   roll stands.

b) You complete your move by picking up the dice and ask your opponent
   to roll again.

c) Your opponent's roll stands, but you can change your move to play
   against the roll.

d) You have the choice of playing against the roll or making your
   opponent roll again.

e) Other.

I would very much appreciate input in this matter, which arose during
a choutte last night. I was cap, the guy in the box rolled before I'd
picked up my dice and I (and a more experienced player in the team)
asked him to roll again, which is the rule I've always played by, b)
above. After he'd lost 32pts (4 cubes on 8), he complained that we'd
made him roll again only because his first roll was a 'crusher'. He
said that normal practice was c) above, ie I could change my play
knowing his roll but his roll would stand.

Anyway, if people could follow up with their local/social and
tournament rules, I'd be grateful so I could at least see what the
consensus is.

James Grenier
whois jag on FIBS and NOBS

Kit Woolsey  writes:

Technically, there is no question that b) is correct.  Your move ends
when you have picked up your dice, not before.  Your opponent cannot
roll while you are still making your move.  Therefore, he should

As a practical matter there is a fair amount of tailgating (rolling
before the opponent has picked up his dice) in chouettes, particularly
in races and where there are forced moves.  Some players do it by
habit.  However it can lead to trouble, as well as some sharp
practices.  Some chouettes may tolerate it, but I don't recommend it.

In a tournament, this is what I would recommend you do.  The first
time your opponent tailgates, do not touch your dice.  Instead, grab
his dice before they have a chance to land.  After doing this, ask him
politely to not tailgate.  If he persists in doing so again, once
again leave your dice alone.  This time, call the tournament director.
As long as you have not picked up your dice you can never get an
unfavorable ruling -- if he rolled a crusher he will have to reroll

Also, don't get into the tailgating habit yourself.  My policy is to
never start shaking my dice seriously until my opponent has picked up
his dice, even in a race.  This slight delay avoids the tailgating
problem, which is best.


Marina Smith  writes:

In tournaments, I have often found this a problem. It seems to be
tolerated, but it makes me feel rushed. Last weekend, when my opponent
rolled before I had picked up my dice, during the first game I let it
stand. At the end of the game I politely asked him not to do it and he
stopped the practice, though at times it was obviously difficult not
to do it as a matter of habit. I shall ask sooner next time.


Ivo Lima Brasil Junior  writes:

Here in Brazil, in tournments we always use b), and like Kit posted,
you preferably grab your opponents dice even before they land.

In chouette this happens more offen, so we make an agreement before
the chouette starts, of what to do in that case, and more often we
choose d) because I think is the worse for the opponent (gives you the
advantage of choosing between playing or not against his roll), making
him roll early less often.

Ivo BJ
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